In the early 1960s, opposition to abortion was considered something of a Catholic hobbyhorse, and was often tied to the Church's opposition to artificial contraception. Both, in Church teaching, contravened natural law, and so were seen as inappropriate for human flourishing. As abortion laws began to liberalize at the state level throughout the decade, Catholic bishops wisely encouraged Catholic clergy and laypeople to begin making alliances with non-Catholics (Jews and Protestants). This is really the beginning of what we now call the pro-life movement, which began to coalesce several years before Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973. Part of that bridge building between faiths and denominations was in reframing the issue of abortion outside arguments rooted in natural law, and placing the arguments instead squarely within the rights-based language of American discourse - which is how we end up with "pro right-to-life" as a cause, eventually shortened to "pro-life". But in laying aside natural law arguments in favor of rights-based language, the issue of contraception was decoupled from the issue of abortion. Arguments about abortion became much more rooted in the right of the child to live, and less about how our sexuality must be oriented toward human flourishing. This was an effective strategy, but also leaves some unfinished work to be done by the movement - specifically, a deep discussion of whether fertility in itself is at the center of human identity, or whether it is best understood as a disability or a disease to be managed through medical/pharmaceutical intervention. This is part of the story we're hoping to tell: https://lydwine.substack.com/s/praise-her-in-the-gates
If God has a plan, can people thwart it by just deciding or not deciding to do things? And where do their decisions come from - it has to be from the way God made us since people don't create themselves - they do what they do because of who they are and they don't consciously bring about who they are. Nothing we do is outside of the causal chain. If God has a plan, it is going to happen no matter what people do, so if people stop having kids, that is defacto God's plan unless you think he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. Is Judas a hero or a villain. COuld he have chosen not to betray Jesus. What a precarious salvation plan if God had to sit there an hope Judas did the right (or wrong??) thing. He has to be a hero and devoid of blame if you believe God has a plan. It is weird how people think God has a plan, but also think he put all his eggs in the basket of hoping humans do what he wants them to do and maybe they won't and then he will need a new plan. Theology is so childish because it never thinks about how illogical all this is. Free will is an illusion and God having a plan would make it even more obviously an illusion.
This is a big topic for a comment section that many books and papers have been written on. If you're truly interested in knowing more about the "free will under God's plan" perspective we can make some recommendations. If not, thanks for reading and good day!
Yeah, I am pretty well read in both apologetics (having grown up in evangelical religion) and critical study of religion and in compatibilist vs determinism philosophy and every effort to preserve free will strikes me as borne of pre-existing need for God to exist, have omnipotence/omniscience and be justified in rewarding or torturing people forever and coming up with strange incoherencies so all those can be true at once. Christians have the good form to not be comfortable with God torturing people forever for just being what he made them and knew they would be, but also want to feel like people deserve in some fundamental way what they get. They can’t just admit that the world looks exactly like one would expect if God doesn’t exist and people benefit from and suffer from things that will never be made right because they are afraid cherished values might be untennable without free will and God belief. I wish I could convince them anything morally worth keeping doesn’t need God or free will to keep.
In the early 1960s, opposition to abortion was considered something of a Catholic hobbyhorse, and was often tied to the Church's opposition to artificial contraception. Both, in Church teaching, contravened natural law, and so were seen as inappropriate for human flourishing. As abortion laws began to liberalize at the state level throughout the decade, Catholic bishops wisely encouraged Catholic clergy and laypeople to begin making alliances with non-Catholics (Jews and Protestants). This is really the beginning of what we now call the pro-life movement, which began to coalesce several years before Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973. Part of that bridge building between faiths and denominations was in reframing the issue of abortion outside arguments rooted in natural law, and placing the arguments instead squarely within the rights-based language of American discourse - which is how we end up with "pro right-to-life" as a cause, eventually shortened to "pro-life". But in laying aside natural law arguments in favor of rights-based language, the issue of contraception was decoupled from the issue of abortion. Arguments about abortion became much more rooted in the right of the child to live, and less about how our sexuality must be oriented toward human flourishing. This was an effective strategy, but also leaves some unfinished work to be done by the movement - specifically, a deep discussion of whether fertility in itself is at the center of human identity, or whether it is best understood as a disability or a disease to be managed through medical/pharmaceutical intervention. This is part of the story we're hoping to tell: https://lydwine.substack.com/s/praise-her-in-the-gates
Asking the hard questions.
If God has a plan, can people thwart it by just deciding or not deciding to do things? And where do their decisions come from - it has to be from the way God made us since people don't create themselves - they do what they do because of who they are and they don't consciously bring about who they are. Nothing we do is outside of the causal chain. If God has a plan, it is going to happen no matter what people do, so if people stop having kids, that is defacto God's plan unless you think he is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. Is Judas a hero or a villain. COuld he have chosen not to betray Jesus. What a precarious salvation plan if God had to sit there an hope Judas did the right (or wrong??) thing. He has to be a hero and devoid of blame if you believe God has a plan. It is weird how people think God has a plan, but also think he put all his eggs in the basket of hoping humans do what he wants them to do and maybe they won't and then he will need a new plan. Theology is so childish because it never thinks about how illogical all this is. Free will is an illusion and God having a plan would make it even more obviously an illusion.
This is a big topic for a comment section that many books and papers have been written on. If you're truly interested in knowing more about the "free will under God's plan" perspective we can make some recommendations. If not, thanks for reading and good day!
Yeah, I am pretty well read in both apologetics (having grown up in evangelical religion) and critical study of religion and in compatibilist vs determinism philosophy and every effort to preserve free will strikes me as borne of pre-existing need for God to exist, have omnipotence/omniscience and be justified in rewarding or torturing people forever and coming up with strange incoherencies so all those can be true at once. Christians have the good form to not be comfortable with God torturing people forever for just being what he made them and knew they would be, but also want to feel like people deserve in some fundamental way what they get. They can’t just admit that the world looks exactly like one would expect if God doesn’t exist and people benefit from and suffer from things that will never be made right because they are afraid cherished values might be untennable without free will and God belief. I wish I could convince them anything morally worth keeping doesn’t need God or free will to keep.